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[FSX] Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

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Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar Laon02000 » 28 Nov 2015, 18:25

Bonjour

Je rencontre un problème sur de gros avions de FSX, notamment le DC10 de TomDC10V2 ou l'A330 200 de la livrée FSX: après le décollage et parès avoir pris de l'altitude, j'actionne le PA et bloque les paramètres ( altitude, autothrottle et vitesse, cap- en suivant par exemple le gps); au début pas de problème, le pilote automatique permet de monter avec ces paramètres sans problème, puis une fois que j'ai atteint le premier pallier fixé par l'ATC , et que je dois régler une nouvelle altitude à atteindre (+ parfois changer la vitesse), il continue à monter normalement puis...tout d'un coup, sans prévenir ( des fois vers FL15 des fois vers FL18 ou 25), l'avion se met à se cabrer très dangereusement et dans la seconde qui suit il décroche. Je précise que le dégrivrage est activé. J'ai observé en refaisant l'essai plusieurs fois que dans ce cas, le trim de profondeur prend brutalement une valeur positive élevée ( dépasse 10 pour aller vers 20...) ou que sans raison aucune, le régime de moteurs baisse de manière importante ( par exemple le % pase de 60 à 20 et même parfois approche 0). Pour sortir du décrochage, c'est très compliqué, il faut faire des manœuvres acrobatiques et désactiver le PA et quand je remet le PA avec les mêmes paramètres que précédemment, en moins d'une minute, cela recommence...
Je ne rencontre pas de problème avec par exemple le Fokker 100 quand je vais un Paris Lyon ou Strasbourg. Mais quand j('utilise un gros avion pour aller par exemple à Madrid j'ai ce problème. Alors si je souhaite faire un vol transatlantique, c'est impossible ( encore en allant à Madrid je peux surveiller et lutter contre le décrochage, mais en faisant un vol long courrier transatlantique je ne peux pas constamment surveiller!)
C'est très frustant! Alors toute aide sera la bienvenue pour régler ce problème incompréhensible car le PA est là justement pour stabiliser l'avion , avoir une montée avec des vitesses et taux constants et non pour aboutir à cette instabilité.
Merci par avance
Laon02000
 
Messages: 12
Inscription: 10 Déc 2014, 17:07

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar DRCW » 29 Nov 2015, 22:01

Hello, This sounds like a bug in the aircraft's autopilot configuration. First check and see if there are any updates available for this aircraft. If not you could replace the autopilot with a pop up panel from another aircraft. Download the Falcon 50 at simvation.com and it has a very good pop up autopilot panel. I wrote a post at fs-passengers.com that I will pass on here:

So you Don't like learning FMC/FMS systems?
There was a thread back in April of this year started by JamieH with a question on the autopilot in his PMDG777. Long story short , he had never worked with a FMC
based model using LNAV and VNAV systems. Most of these aircraft don't have GPS set-ups.. Poor Jamie said he got in over his head, and I know that feeling well. It
can be frustrating and it took a lot of time for me to learn how to use these systems. There are many who just want to fly, so the question remains, can you run these
aircraft in the same way you would a default 737-800 in FSX? Well the answer is YES ! I just purchased the Carenado Hawker 850 and this aircraft does not included
a GPS system but is totally dependent on FMC operation. Now I can run with that but lets face facts. In real life there are usually 2 pilots sharing the work load within
the flight deck. I have also invested a lot of money in scenery which is redundant if all my time is spent watching the instruments and gauges ,in other words "GEEKING OUT". I would have to record a flight
and then play it back and play passenger looking out over the wing. There are times I would like to do both in a live flight and split that time or just be a passenger and
run the aircraft from the back of the plane. Yes you can do that once you are off the ground all the way to a final approach before returning to the cockpit.

Step one in default operations of the Hawker 850 is to add what is missing on the aircraft . I also own a Carenado King Air B200 which includes a GP400 GPS System
in a 2D pop up as well as in the VC. Since I do not wish to alter the aircraft and run it as intended when I am in the mood, adding this 2d pop up which includes the
ability to switch NAV/GPS became the best answer.

I simply added this gauge to the Hawker 850's panel folder. The hawkers Panel CFG reads as follows:

[Window Titles]
Window00=PFD PROLINE21
Window01=MFD PROLINE21
Window02=AUTOPILOT/DCP
Window03=DCP
Window04=FMC
Window05=CONTROL WINDOWS
Window06=WINDOWS MANAGER
Window07=ENGINE SETUP/INFO SETUP
Window08=LOADING SCREEN

So I just added a line that reads:
Window09=GP400

Now I pull the following GP400 cfg file from the King Air B200 and copy it/ then paste it into Hawker 850's correct location right under the[ Window08] section in the cfg
as follows:

[Window09]
Background_color=8,8,8
size_mm=524,378
visible=0
ident=10000
window_size= 0.310, 0.370
window_pos= 0.550, 0.160
no_luminous=1
zorder=7


gauge00=GPS530_3D_B200!GPS_530, 0,0,520,378
gauge01=B200KA!ToggleCAR530, 64,0,384,32

Now simply by selecting views / instrument panel/ GP400 there is the GPS panel. So I can now create a flight plan using this gauge or the FMC, the best of
both worlds! Best of all this GPS gauge has the Nav/GPS function so I did not need to add a pop up Nav / GPS switch.

Now we need to add an easy to function autopilot pop up gauge to bypass the VNAV/ LNAV an run it just like a default aircraft. First to find that perfect pop up
autopilot panel that contains:

1) AP switch to turn the autopilot on / off
2) APP switch for the ILS approach activation
3) NAV switch for use in both ILS and heading hold functions
4) The ability to change my heading without going into the cockpit to adjust the heading bug
5) FD switch to turn the flight director on/off
6) Y/D yaw damper switch
7) ALT switch to hold the altitude you have selected .
8) The ability to change both the altitude and vertical speed without have to go into the cockpit.
9) Speed switch and the ability to change the aircraft's speed selection

I found one in a freeware aircraft which has this very 2D pop up panel. It is the Falcon 50 which is a nice freeware model to play with. You can download this aircraft at
Simvation.com civil jets. I would add a link to it but as new aircraft are added , the page where this file is located changes. Right now it is currently located on pg.186

Once you download and add this aircraft package to FSX, Go into the aircraft's folder and copy all the panel folders contents into the FSX main gauges folder. By doing
this all you will need to do is add the CFG for this gauge and not have to copy bit maps and dll's into each plane you want to use this pop-up in . You can put this gauge
into any aircraft you own with ease.

Now back into the Hawkers panel folder I will add the next 2D panel as follows:

Window10=Auto Pop Up

Now pulling that CFG section from the Falcon 50 panel CFG I will scroll down the the proper location and add:

[Window10]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=270,236
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=MISC_POPUP_1
window_size= 0.120, 0.210
window_pos= 0.450, 0.800
zorder=4

gauge00=Falcon5D!YLF50_AP, 0,0,270,236


When I first tried it out, the speed button would not activate on the 2D pop up panel so I went into the Hawker 850 main CFG folder and made the following change.

[autopilot]
autopilot_available= 1
flight_director_available= 1
direction_indicator= 1
attitude_indicator= 1
default_vertical_speed= 0
autothrottle_available= 0 Simply change 0 to 1
autothrottle_arming_required= 0
autothrottle_max_rpm = 99
autothrottle_takeoff_ga= 0
pitch_takeoff_ga= 0
default_pitch_mode= 0
default_bank_mode= 0

Now I have a autopilot that works and can override the VNAV and LNAV system. Note: You will have to change the cfg back to autothrottle_available =0 if you want to
run the FMC as needed and then back to 1 if you want to run this aircraft like a standard default FSX aircraft using the GPS / ILS system.

In the long run, It would be great to learn FMC/FMS systems. It is a good thing to know everything you can as you increase your skill in this hobby, however FSX is a
simulation and it was also designed to have fun and just fly. Let us not then put so much "geek" into this hobby that we take the fun away! Please read my Fun with
freeware aircraft threads in this forum and really see what you can do with a 10 year old program.
DRCW
 
Messages: 22
Inscription: 08 Déc 2014, 09:37

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar DRCW » 29 Nov 2015, 22:13

One last thing, The cfg file for the autopilot may be corrupted. Take the CFG from the default Boeing 737-800's Autopilot section and swap it out with the one in your DC-10. This should not effect the gauges in anyway.
DRCW
 
Messages: 22
Inscription: 08 Déc 2014, 09:37

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar Laon02000 » 30 Nov 2015, 00:23

Hi, thank you for your answer. I will study it and do what you wrote step by step.
Could you tell me if the cfg file you are talking about is the "Aircraft" cfg file you find on the airplaine folder? it begins like this when you open it "
fltsim.0]
title=Dc10-10F CF6-6_late SHORTFAIRING DOMESTIC
sim=tomdc10
model=
panel=
sound=
texture=airtours
kb_checklists=Boeing747-400_check
kb_reference=Boeing747-400_ref
atc_id=
atc_airline=
atc_flight_number=
atc_heavy=1
ui_manufacturer=MD//McDonnell Douglas
ui_type=. DC-10-10
ui_variation=. AIRTOURS
ui_typerole=Kommerzielles Linienflugzeug
ui_createdby=Thomas Ruth + Eric Cantu
description= FSX Conversion of Eric Cantu´s FS2004 model. New textures, landing gear, interior and some FSX style custom animations.





[General]
atc_type=Mc Donnell
atc_model=DC-10
editable=1
performance=
Category=airplane

[CameraDefinition.0]
Title=Left wingview
Guid={0ae3f864-da10-4e5a-977c-b9bba47d6f7a}
Description=Left trailing edge as seen from paxcabin
Origin=Center
SnapPbhAdjust=Swivel
SnapPbhReturn=FALSE
PanPbhAdjust=Swivel
PanPbhReturn=FALSE
Track=None
ShowAxis=FALSE
AllowZoom=TRUE
InitialZoom=0.8
ShowWeather=Yes
InitialXyz=-3.318, 3.15, -11.35
InitialPbh=5, 0, 270
XyzAdjust=TRUE
Category=Aircraft
MomentumEffect=TRUE
ClipMode=Minimum
"

....(etc)?
Thank you for the help
Laon02000
 
Messages: 12
Inscription: 10 Déc 2014, 17:07

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar DRCW » 30 Nov 2015, 02:57

Hello Yes this is the correct cfg. Scroll down untill you find the autopilot section and replace that section only with the following from the default 737-800

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1000
autothrottle_available=1
autothrottle_arming_required=1
autothrottle_max_rpm = 90
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
pitch_takeoff_ga = 8;
max_pitch=10.0
max_pitch_acceleration=1.0
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.0
max_bank=30,25,20,15,10
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3.00
max_throttle_rate=0.10
nav_proportional_control=12.00
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0.00
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00
gs_proportional_control=25.0
gs_integrator_control=0.53
gs_derivative_control=0.00
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00
yaw_damper_gain = 1.0
DRCW
 
Messages: 22
Inscription: 08 Déc 2014, 09:37

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar Laon02000 » 11 Déc 2015, 00:56

Hello, I think I have found the problem. I was flying at the speed of 220-230 when passing FL15 or 18. And about 250-260 when passing FL25.
I tried with much higher speed and there were no stall problems, I could do a transatlantic flight from Paris to Fort de France wthout any event, at FL34 I was flying at 350-360 knots.
Which means that the stall speed seems to depend of the altitud.
Thank you
Laon02000
 
Messages: 12
Inscription: 10 Déc 2014, 17:07

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar DRCW » 11 Déc 2015, 10:52

Hello again, Yes flying too slow can be a problem. The rule is no more than 250 knots at or below 10,000 ft. No more than 300 knots from 10,000 to 18000 feet after that while climbing above 18000 ft or in the USA called transition altitude that is where you can begin settings for your cruse speed.
Once I get to 18000, I will increase to 350 knots and then once passing 20000 ft I will then set for my final cruse speed of 440 to 510 depending on the aircraft I am flying. Slow speeds are more of a challenge in larger commercial aircraft. In older large commercial airliners, autopilots reacted much slower than in modern ones. One added issue in flight simulator X is FPS " Frames per second" If you are having issues with FPS this can also be a problem when changing settings in an aircraft as they do not react as well. At flight level 340 in a DC 10 at only 350 to 360 knots is too slow. At that altitude 440 knots is much better. Pilots refer that altitude as ( coffin zone ). The air is very thin and speed means everything to keep the proper air flow under the wings thus maintaining lift. Approach speed is also critical especially if you have to make a series of last minute turns on the approach. In that situation the need to have the proper flap extension and air speed is critical, and wait until you are on final to lower the landing gear.
Glad you worked it out!
Darrin
DRCW
 
Messages: 22
Inscription: 08 Déc 2014, 09:37

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar MichARom » 16 Déc 2015, 16:26

Boniour,
je ne parle malheureusement pas anglais.
Est ce que quelqu'un pourrait me faire une traduction sommaire de ce qui a été dit d'important dans ce forum?

Merci d'avance

MichARom
Merci à vous si vous pouvez m'aider http://www.rikoooo.com/fr/forum/89/42910 . :)
MichARom
 
Messages: 55
Inscription: 29 Oct 2015, 17:27

Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Message non lupar AF2205 » 16 Déc 2015, 16:37

Bonjour ,

voilà la traduction
Re: Pilote automatique destabilisant l'avion

Messagepar DRCW »11 Déc 2015, 09:52
Bonjour à nouveau, Oui voler trop lent peut être un problème. La règle est pas plus de 250 noeuds au niveau ou au-dessous de 10.000 pieds. Pas plus de 300 noeuds de 10.000 à 18000 pieds après que tout en grimpant au-dessus de 18000 pieds ou aux Etats-Unis ont appelé l'altitude de transition qui est où vous pouvez commencer paramètres de votre vitesse de cruche.
Une fois que je reçois à 18000, je vais augmenter à 350 noeuds et puis une fois en passant de 20000 ft Je vais ensuite fixés pour ma vitesse de cruche finale de 440 à 510 en fonction de l'avion je vole. Les vitesses lentes sont plus d'un défi plus grand avion commercial. Dans les anciens grands avions commerciaux, pilotes automatiques ont réagi beaucoup plus lent que dans les modernes. Un problème supplémentaire dans Flight Simulator X est FPS "Frames per second" Si vous rencontrez des problèmes avec le SPF cela peut aussi être un problème lors du changement de paramètres dans un avion car ils ne réagissent pas ainsi. Au niveau de vol 340 dans un DC 10 à seulement 350 à 360 noeuds est trop lent. À cette altitude 440 noeuds est beaucoup mieux. Les pilotes se réfèrent cette altitude que (zone de cercueil). L'air est très mince et la vitesse signifie tout pour maintenir le débit d'air sous les ailes maintenant ainsi ascenseur. Vitesse d'approche est également critique, particulièrement si vous avez à faire une série de dernière minute se tourne sur l'approche. Dans cette situation, la nécessité d'avoir la bonne vitesse de sortie des volets et de l'air est essentielle, et attendre que vous êtes en finale pour abaisser le train d'atterrissage.
Glad vous avez travaillé it out!
Darrin

Cordialement AF2205
AF2205
 
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